[OT] Högerstyrda fordon i Sverige - finns det någon efterfrågan?

[JonathanR]

Apologies that this is a little off topic and I hope that this thread is OK.

Since moving to Sweden, I have not had the best experience with the used car market. Vehicles seem to be really expensive compared to the UK (and even compared to mainland Europe) and the standard of the Swedish Besiktning is comically low. It is amazing how wrecked a car can be and still pass a besiktning.

I really like to drive vans, as they are better for me as a very tall person, and I like to be able to throw bikes in the back and not bother with a bike carrier. I currently have a Caravelle, but it's too small.

I am sure that there are many of you that also drive similar vehicles as they are very handy.

I have started to look at the possibility of importing larger "race vans" from the UK to sell here in Sweden, but I just don't know how popular they would be, with them being right hand drive (RHD). The UK is a huge market, with many large fleet operators that build quite unique vans, that are really well suited to cyclists needs as well. One particular niche is welfare/mess vans, that often have a workshop/storage area (bikes can be stored internally) and a crew area (5-6 seats) with 240v power, extra heaters, water heater, washing facilities, etc. Lots of extra lighting and a really high specification that I have never seen here in Sweden.

As someone who has grown up with RHD, I am obviously used to it, and I don't see it as being an issue in nearly all of Sweden as there is so little traffic here. But for someone without that experience, it might be a little daunting.

Can anyone possibly give me their opinion of whether it's something they would consider if it gave them a specification that's impossible to find here and at a lower price? For reference, we're looking at 150-180k SEK plus MOMs for a 5-7yr old van (Opel Movano) with 140-200,000km on the clock. One owner, professionally maintained, all alterations made to comply with Swedish rules, registered and inspected here in Sweden.

For me as a competitive gravel cyclist, it wouldn't take much alteration to turn it into a race van to comfortably sleep at least two people, allowing me to more easily compete around the country, and also spend more time in my favourite place (Norway).

Grateful for any feedback.

 

[LydiaHanke]

Apologies that this is a little off topic and I hope that this thread is OK.

Since moving to Sweden, I have not had the best experience with the used car market. Vehicles seem to be really expensive compared to the UK (and even compared to mainland Europe) and the standard of the Swedish Besiktning is comically low. It is amazing how wrecked a car can be and still pass a besiktning.

I really like to drive vans, as they are better for me as a very tall person, and I like to be able to throw bikes in the back and not bother with a bike carrier. I currently have a Caravelle, but it's too small.

I am sure that there are many of you that also drive similar vehicles as they are very handy.

I have started to look at the possibility of importing larger "race vans" from the UK to sell here in Sweden, but I just don't know how popular they would be, with them being right hand drive (RHD). The UK is a huge market, with many large fleet operators that build quite unique vans, that are really well suited to cyclists needs as well. One particular niche is welfare/mess vans, that often have a workshop/storage area (bikes can be stored internally) and a crew area (5-6 seats) with 240v power, extra heaters, water heater, washing facilities, etc. Lots of extra lighting and a really high specification that I have never seen here in Sweden.

As someone who has grown up with RHD, I am obviously used to it, and I don't see it as being an issue in nearly all of Sweden as there is so little traffic here. But for someone without that experience, it might be a little daunting.

Can anyone possibly give me their opinion of whether it's something they would consider if it gave them a specification that's impossible to find here and at a lower price? For reference, we're looking at 150-180k SEK plus MOMs for a 5-7yr old van (Opel Movano) with 140-200,000km on the clock. One owner, professionally maintained, all alterations made to comply with Swedish rules, registered and inspected here in Sweden.

For me as a competitive gravel cyclist, it wouldn't take much alteration to turn it into a race van to comfortably sleep at least two people, allowing me to more easily compete around the country, and also spend more time in my favourite place (Norway).

Grateful for any feedback.

Rhd is an absolute no go in Sweden. This would mean that your always sitting behind a nother vehicle with absolute 0 visability. Imagine overtaking and having to first move over the whole car to see if someone is coming straight at you.

There's a reason we switched in 1967. You might find 1 or 2 enthusiasts but other than that no one would even consider to but one.

Would be nice if we could get the auction firms the UK has, co-part etc. but we're to small for that.

 

[Berk]

Please put [OT] in front of the thread title.

Apart from the important point brought up above, I would think you would need to change headlights. This can be quite expensive. Also after Brexit I would think there are tariffs. I don't know how high these are.

 

[JonathanR]

Please put [OT] in front of the thread title.

Apart from the important point brought up above, I would think you would need to change headlights. This can be quite expensive. Also after Brexit I would think there are tariffs. I don't know how high these are.

Headlights, export tariffs and everything else has been factored in. Brexit is a stupid, stupid thing, but I have exported a forestry machine from the UK to Sweden since it came into effect.

 

[JonathanR]

Rhd is an absolute no go in Sweden. This would mean that your always sitting behind a nother vehicle with absolute 0 visability. Imagine overtaking and having to first move over the whole car to see if someone is coming straight at you.

There's a reason we switched in 1967. You might find 1 or 2 enthusiasts but other than that no one would even consider to but one.

Would be nice if we could get the auction firms the UK has, co-part etc. but we're to small for that.

I guess it's less of an issue for Brits as we're used to driving on the 'wrong' side of the road. Whenever you take a UK vehicle to Europe, it's what you do. In practice, it doesn't actually make very much difference, assuming you're not driving really close to the vehicle in front.

Where we are in Småland, the traffic is so incredibly light that it's not often that you're actually sat behind someone!

 

[nisseson]

Rhd is an absolute no go in Sweden. This would mean that your always sitting behind a nother vehicle with absolute 0 visability. Imagine overtaking and having to first move over the whole car to see if someone is coming straight at you.

There's a reason we switched in 1967. You might find 1 or 2 enthusiasts but other than that no one would even consider to but one.

Would be nice if we could get the auction firms the UK has, co-part etc. but we're to small for that.

Well, e.g. cars for the postmen have been and still are RHD in Sweden so they are not as rare as you might think. I would have preferred to have a RHD car when I was delivering morning papers 25 years ago.

 

[Aron]

To be honest. No way. And I am comfortable driving RHD having spent time abroad. Its not about the vehicle, its about not getting a proper overview of oncoming trafic. I very much doubt that this is something that would apeal to the Swedish market.

 

[Aron]

...But if you could find cheap sources of spares and extras for these vehicles I definitly think there is a market for you.

 

[GoranS]

Interesting thought, but I am a bit skeptical. My guess is that for most people the price advantage you may have compared to a LHD vehicle is not enough to compensate for the RHD. And I don't think vans for cyclists is a huge market in Sweden to begin with.

 

[Bikzz]

No one here would by a RHD car. Some people import from Germany to get a better price. You guys should switch side !

 

[JonathanR]

Interesting thought, but I am a bit skeptical. My guess is that for most people the price advantage you may have compared to a LHD vehicle is not enough to compensate for the RHD. And I don't think vans for cyclists is a huge market in Sweden to begin with.

I was thinking also for machine operators, self employed people and hunters.

I do very much understand the reservations that people here have as regards RHD. I will import one for myself regardless, and perhaps it might appeal to some people once they see it.

For my work, I drive forestry machines, forklifts and have a C+E licence, so perhaps my perspective isn't representative of normal people. I just see a machine and the side that the steering wheel is on isn't so important for me!

 

[JonathanR]

No one here would by a RHD car. Some people import from Germany to get a better price. You guys should switch side !

I have extensively looked at Germany (I'm half German) and whilst the besiktning standard is really good there compared to Sweden, you're paying a lot more than you would in the UK. For example, a van that might be 150,000 Sek would be 120,000 sek in Germany and 90,000 sek (imported cost) in the UK.

What's maybe a little unusual about the UK vehicle market is that it's all lease purchases and hire agreements. Not many people actually buy their vehicles. Consequently, there are lots and lots of 3-6 year old vehicles on the market and with 70 million people, there are a lot of interesting niches and useful vans/trucks.

 

[jonte987]

Nu ska man kanske inte gå över kanalen efter vatten.... jag läste däremot att det pga kronans oväntade status blivit intressant att importera från Tysken igen, inte minst husbilar

 

[Berk]

I just see a machine and the side that the steering wheel is on isn't so important for me!

No one mentioned the side of the steering wheel in isolation. Having manual shifting on the wrong side is the main thing to get used to. But I could drive without problems in no time when renting a car in the UK. The visibility on the road when sitting to the side of the road is the main issue. Sweden has the widest roads and least traffic of Europe, so it's less of an issue here than in other places, but that's still a significant disadvantage.

What's maybe a little unusual about the UK vehicle market is that it's all lease purchases and hire agreements. Not many people actually buy their vehicles.

I've never understood why that is. Are there tax advantages to those constructions?

 

[jonte987]

I was thinking also for machine operators, self employed people and hunters.

I do very much understand the reservations that people here have as regards RHD. I will import one for myself regardless, and perhaps it might appeal to some people once they see it.

For my work, I drive forestry machines, forklifts and have a C+E licence, so perhaps my perspective isn't representative of normal people. I just see a machine and the side that the steering wheel is on isn't so important for me!

It is not about the skill to operate it. I think most or many of us has been driving all over the place in rentals. In my case UK, NZ, AU and SA. The problem was to keep at the right(left) side of the street especially after a turn and even worse after coming home after a couple months on the wrong side.

 

[H.]

Price would need to be significantly lower to be an alternative I would assume. So much that it probably eats up the margin and overhead cost.

It's such a big drawback and people are not used to it, so I guess the majority will just skip to the next car in the list.

I mean, even if those who buy from you might accept RHD, they probably also need to calculate with lower price the day they will sell the car.

 

[jonte987]

BTW, way. back in the day we drove LHD on the left and still voted no to changing to drive on the right (correct) side. So clearly it is possible, you just need a spotter / co-pilot.

Of course there is always a low enough price but I am not optimistic.

I am not sure what size engine we are talking about but with low expectation there are some cheap options in EU as well. (Although I just noticed it is IT not DE but no judgements...I guess)

 

[jonte987]

Japan exporterar mycket beggade bilar (har jag sett på TV)

https://satjapan.com/car-blog/rhd-to-lhd-conversion/

Sen har jag sett på samma TV att de i Australien har en hel industri för att konvertera jänkare på andra hållet.

 

[JonathanR]

BTW, way. back in the day we drove LHD on the left and still voted no to changing to drive on the right (correct) side. So clearly it is possible, you just need a spotter / co-pilot.

Of course there is always a low enough price but I am not optimistic.

I am not sure what size engine we are talking about but with low expectation there are some cheap options in EU as well. (Although I just noticed it is IT not DE but no judgements...I guess)

Visa bilaga 812163

I'm not looking at generic vans, but rather vehicles that are pre-built with additional seating, 240v power, aux heating, aux batteries and water heater. Specialist vehicles that if you were to do the same build yourself, would add another 100,000sek to the cost.

I am getting the impression of course that Sweden isn't too keen on RHD vehicles, and I'm very grateful for all the considered and detailed feedback.

 

[jonte987]

I'm not looking at generic vans, but rather vehicles that are pre-built with additional seating, 240v power, aux heating, aux batteries and water heater. Specialist vehicles that if you were to do the same build yourself, would add another 100,000sek to the cost.

I am getting the impression of course that Sweden isn't too keen on RHD vehicles, and I'm very grateful for all the considered and detailed feedback.

There is a price point and a market of course. If I needed van specfically to go to bike parks or competions and the price was 150 000 instead 250 i migh consider it.

But with that diff there should be a market for conversions as well.
I wrote that in swedish but they do conversions in australia and japan

 

[42Hz]

Right side is wrong side, right?

 

[JonathanR]

Right side is wrong side, right?

It is indeed! It's frustrating that the UK persisted with RHD.

I work in the UK and drive RHD there - it's actually surprisingly easy to regularly drive on the left and right and in RHD and LHD once you get used to it.

 

[Makten]

Brexit is a stupid, stupid thing...

For example, a van that might be 150,000 Sek would be 120,000 sek in Germany and 90,000 sek (imported cost) in the UK.

---------

Even if someone is OK with RHD, reselling the car later will be more or less impossible.

 

[42Hz]

It is indeed! It's frustrating that the UK persisted with RHD.

I work in the UK and drive RHD there - it's actually surprisingly easy to regularly drive on the left and right and in RHD and LHD once you get used to it.

1997 I rented a car in U.K. they, as US insist on renting cars with barley any petrol in them so I had to first drive to fill it up at a petrol station, when pulling out from the station to the busy road I was very cautious since it was my first time with RHD, looked both ways and found a gap in the traffic and started to accelerate when my mate screamed for his life in the passenger seat, we almost got hit by on coming traffic! =)

Thankfully I was the only one old enough to drive a rented car so I didn't have to sit in the passenger seat!

After a week it was effortless, roundabouts was the best!

Scary though after coming home how many times I had to really think about being on the correct side! ;)

 

[Bikzz]

Känner igen det där, efter att ha kört hyrbil i NZ. Lätt att göra fel när man kör ut på en tom väg utan trafik.

 

[42Hz]

Känner igen det där, efter att ha kört hyrbil i NZ. Lätt att göra fel när man kör ut på en tom väg utan trafik.

Ja, läskigt!

 

[jonte987]

värst är korsningar som inte är helt symmetriska och 90grader. Var fan ska jag egentligen?

 

[Stumpy]

Tyckte jag hanterade det bra när jag körde motorcykel i Hong Kong, eftersom man då var på helspänn för att köra rätt. När jag kom hem svängde jag dock till vänstersidan i en korsning. Lite mer autopilot då. Sambon undrade vad jag höll på med.

 

[Batavus]

Cars not my preference, cup of tea, but I do know conversion to our way of driving is possible, especially if the vehicle in question originally comes in both "directions". Is it worth the effort?

 

[JonathanR]

Cars not my preference, cup of tea, but I do know conversion to our way of driving is possible, especially if the vehicle in question originally comes in both "directions". Is it worth the effort?

It can be very expensive. I have heard that they start at about $2500 or so, but I can't imagine it would be as little as that for a modern vehicle as there are so many more electronics.

 

[ChJ]

The type of vehicle you describe sort of exists here as well, search for ”crossbuss” or ”racebuss” and you will normally find ones in a wide price range, anything between 50kSEK and 2MSEK .
Still likely higher than corresponding type in UK though…

 

[Kneecap]

Tjena!

We have about the same rules at swedish MOT as in Germany and UK. Some minor differences. One thing i know for a fact is that its easier to pay for a clean MOT in UK.
For me it should be 8-90000 maximum for a RHD if the LHD is around 150000 in Sweden. So much more inconvenience..

 

[JonathanR]

Tjena!

We have about the same rules at swedish MOT as in Germany and UK. Some minor differences. One thing i know for a fact is that its easier to pay for a clean MOT in UK.
For me it should be 8-90000 maximum for a RHD if the LHD is around 150000 in Sweden. So much more inconvenience..

The besiktning here is really, really slack compared to an MOT. You can't possibly have the same standard in a 15 minute besiktning as a 1hr MOT. It's one of the main reasons the whole vehicle fleet in the UK is so new - cars become economically unviable to repair, as minor faults are deemed to be MOT failures. Here in Sweden, such faults are overlooked, or just dismissed as advisories. I would say that it's fair to conclude that the Swedish besiktning is a basic safety check whereas a UK MOT is a comprehensive safety and condition check.

Once a car fails an MOT in the UK, it cannot be driven, except to a repair garage. And that's even if you put the car in 30 days before it's due date. You still can't drive it.

It's a moot point though, as it only influences some of the differences in the market.

I do sense that the general consensus is that a RHD vehicle wouldn't be popular here.

 

[Kneecap]

The besiktning here is really, really slack compared to an MOT. You can't possibly have the same standard in a 15 minute besiktning as a 1hr MOT. It's one of the main reasons the whole vehicle fleet in the UK is so new - cars become economically unviable to repair, as minor faults are deemed to be MOT failures. Here in Sweden, such faults are overlooked, or just dismissed as advisories. I would say that it's fair to conclude that the Swedish besiktning is a basic safety check whereas a UK MOT is a comprehensive safety and condition check.

Once a car fails an MOT in the UK, it cannot be driven, except to a repair garage. And that's even if you put the car in 30 days before it's due date. You still can't drive it.

It's a moot point though, as it only influences some of the differences in the market.

I do sense that the general consensus is that a RHD vehicle wouldn't be popular here.

Tjena!

I follow a lot of car channels from UK and ive seen a lot of really bad cars that didnt fail MOT.
I would say that the rules we have here in Sweden is more than enough.. But what do i know..

 

[Bikzz]

Vad svamlar ni om ?? Bilbesiktningen funkar bra, dom letar efter trafikfarliga fel. Helt ok.

 

[Makten]

I would say that it's fair to conclude that the Swedish besiktning is a basic safety check whereas a UK MOT is a comprehensive safety and condition check.

And why on earth would the authorities have anything to say about anything else than safety on your personal belongings?